Indian Larry

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Posts by Indian Larry

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  15

  Hate Speech

  by Roberta804 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was listening to a recording on youtube taken from the 2013 convention on "human apostates".

  the term "mentally diseased" is way over the line.

  can you imagine if they called blacks or catholics or god forbid, muslims "mentally diseased" what kind of trouble there would be?

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  Indian Larry

  Does anyone have a link to the text of this talk?
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  14

  I found something in Watchtower literature I can agree with.

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i ran across this excerpt from studies in the scriptures vol iv.

  in it russell rails on as to why you should not tie youreself to any organization.

  in a way he unknowingly predicts how the watchtower would turn against real "truth seekers" in their own organization, (quite possible the only prediction he ever got correct) and then goes on to show how the deluded witness just can't see how they can have a relationship with christ without a earthly organization.. .

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  Indian Larry

  I ran across this excerpt from Studies in the Scriptures Vol IV. In it Russell rails on as to why you should not tie youreself to any organization. In a way he unknowingly predicts how the Watchtower would turn against real "truth seekers" in their own organization, (quite possible the only prediction he ever got correct) and then goes on to show how the deluded Witness just can't see how they can have a relationship with Christ without a earthly organization.

  Surely all know that whenever they join any of these human organizations, accepting its Confession of Faith as theirs, they bind themselves to believe neither more nor less than that creed expresses on the subject. If, in spite of the bondage thus voluntarily yielded to, they should think for themselves, and receive light from other sources, in advance of the light enjoyed by the sect they have joined, they must either prove untrue to the sect and to their covenant with it, to believe nothing contrary to its Confession, or else they must honestly cast aside and repudiate the Confession which they have outgrown, and come out of such a sect.

  To do this requires grace and costs some effort, disrupting, as it often does, pleasant associations, and exposing the honest truth-seeker to the silly charges of being a “traitor” to his sect, a “turncoat,” one “not established,” etc. When one joins a sect, his mind is supposed to be given up entirely to that sect, and henceforth not his own. The sect undertakes to decide for him what is truth and what is error; and he, to be a true, staunch, faithful member, must accept the decisions of his sect, future as well as past, on all religious matters, ignoring his own individual thought, and avoiding personal investigation, lest he grow in knowledge, and be lost as a member of such sect. This slavery of conscience to a sect and creed is often stated in so many words, when such a one declares that he “belongs” to such a sect.

  These shackles of sectarianism, so far from being rightly esteemed as shackles and bonds, are esteemed and worn as ornaments, as badges of respect and marks of character. So far has the delusion gone, that many of God’s children would be ashamed to be known to be without some such chains—light or heavy in weight, long or short in the personal liberty granted. They are ashamed to say that they are not in bondage to any sect or creed, but “belong” to Christ only.
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  1

  Video Shows Impala Escape Cheetah By Jumping Into Passenger Vehicle

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/22805713/video-shows-impala-escape-cheetah-by-jumping-into-passenger-vehicle.

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  Indian Larry

  Cool.
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  19

  Why the "New Light" in the July 15 Watchtower?

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it seems to me that in the past large flashes of "new light" have come when the governing body was backed into a corner.

  for example the multiple re-defining of what a generation is until it ended up the ridiculous "overlapping" meaning.. what is the reason this time?

  are they worried because the number of partakers has been going up?

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  Indian Larry

  It seems to me that in the past large flashes of "new light" have come when the governing body was backed into a corner. For example the multiple re-defining of what a generation is until it ended up the ridiculous "overlapping" meaning.

  What is the reason this time? Are they worried because the number of partakers has been going up? Are they in effect demoting the rest of the annointed as a pre-emptive move to ward off any power plays? Is there something else I am missing? Why change at this time? There has to be a good reason
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  32

  July 15 Watchtower - Contradiction on Page 22 paragraph 10

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the paragraph says:.

  who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave?

  that slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing.

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  Indian Larry

  The paragraph says:

  Who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave? . . . that slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing

  spiritual food during Christ’s presence.

  My thoughts:

  It is kind of ironic that the teaching has changed to mean that only a small group are actually involved in preparing and dispensing food during Christ’s presence.

  In 1981 there was a big scandal in Brooklyn. The editor of the Awake left the organization, the registrar and co-author of the Gilead school left, one of the members of the Governing body left along with more than 200 others. One of the points that those that left agreed on was that the faithful slave really did not “represent” the 144,000.

  In response to this there was a very direct Watchtower article condemning those who held this viewpoint as “objectors”. Here is part of that article:

  "Witnesses of Jehovah understand that the "slave" is comprised of all anointed Christians as a group on earth at any given time during the 19 centuries since Pentecost. Accordingly, the "domestics" are these followers of Christ as individuals.

  Some readers may feel that this is a rather sectarian view of matters. Or they may object to the idea that the "slave" and the "domestics" represent the same class, one as a composite body and the other as individuals. The objectors may argue that not all of Christ's anointed disciples have a share in preparing the spiritual food, so that perhaps the "slave" pictures only the leading ones, and the "domestics" those they serve in the congregation.

  There is no point in trying to force an interpretation of the parable. Self-deception is of no benefit and is spiritually damaging. Therefore, we must look to the Scriptures for an understanding. In doing this, what do we find?

  [ ... ]Thus we see a clear Scriptural basis for saying that all anointed followers of Christ Jesus make up God's "servant," with Jesus as its Master." Watchtower 1981 Mar 1 pp.24-26

  Notice that last sentence above? That is proof positive that they can use the scriptures to prove or disprove whatever they want to. Let's break this down to its basics.

  1. So called "apostates" claim that the only the governing body is truly the "faithful slave", and the 144,000 anointed can not be part of it because they are not involved "feeding".

  2. They are condemned as apostates, called objectors, thought of as disloyal.

  3. The governing body prints a Watchtower (spiritual food) that says that there is a "clear scriptural basis for saying all anointed followers of Christ Jesus" are part of the "slave".

  4. Move forward 32 years. The governing body prints another Watchtower, this time saying the exact opposite thing. Now we are shown scripture after scripture that proves that the anointed are NOT part of the "slave"

  Is this really light getting brighter? We know the scriptures didn't change, we know that Jehovah does not change, and we know that the truth does not change. Were the governing body telling the truth the first time? Are they telling the truth now? How are we supposed to know?

  I think this food has a little bit of a bad odor coming off of it.
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  18

  Wheat and Weeds artwork in July 15th Watchtower

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  on the back cover of july 15 watchtower magazine is an article entitled look at the artwork!

  it tells us that:.

  "the beautiful pictures and photographs that are painstakingly produced are there for a purpose.

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  Indian Larry

  On the back cover of July 15 Watchtower magazine is an article entitled “Look at the ARTWORK!” It tells us that:

  "The beautiful pictures and photographs that are painstakingly produced are there for a purpose. They are teaching aids that make us think and feel. . . . What does it portray? How does it relate to the title of the article or to the theme scripture. With every other illustration, think of how it relates to the subject under discussion and to your own life.

  This illustration (page 10) shows a field that has roughly an equal amount of wheat and weeds. How does it relate to the subject? It is not representative of what the governing body claims is the actual split of wheat and weeds. According to this article the wheat are ONLY the anointed Christians and the weeds are imitation Christians.

  To get an accurate idea of what the field would look like I looked up on Google the number of (imitation) Christians in the world. The total is 2.18 billion. I assigned each “christian” a 1 centimeter square on in the field. This makes a field that is approximately 54 acres. Out of this we would have 12,604 “anointed” alive today. If we assign each one 1 sq. centimeter in this field they “wheat” would cover only 1 1/2 sq. yards!

  In other words, it is not a field of wheat with some weeds over sown, it is a 54 acre field of weeds with one or two stalks of wheat every so often.

  To better visualize the difference lets look at the difference in yield. The average yield of wheat in the US was 46.3 bushels per acre, / 4840 sq yds (per acre) = <.001 bushel per sq. yard. So if the field was as shown in the illustration it should have produced approximately 1250 bushels of wheat. However, according to the governing bodies interpretation the field that Jesus planted will only produce less than 1/1000th of a bushel. Maybe enough to make a sandwich.

  One of the other statements in the “Look at the ARTWORK!” article on the back cover is that the illustrations are “to help the reader visualize the lessons”. I think it is very true that the illustrations to help to visualize the lessons. The saying is a picture is worth a thousand words. Perhaps that is why if you ask most Witnesses they would be shocked to find out that the governing body does not consider them worthy to by classified as wheat.
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  53

  I still believe in the paradise earth.

  by paul from cleveland in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i still believe it's coming.

  i think if god is real, it has to come.

  it only makes sense.

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  Indian Larry

  Hi Paul,

  I too still belive in the kingdom on earth. I do not believe anyone (not even the 144,000) are going to heaven.

  Check out this podcast especially episodes 1-3, I think you will like it.

  http://truthmattersradio.wordpress.com
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  5

  From the vantage point of an outsider

  by InChristAlone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been reading on here for about a year and a half, joined some time ago, and have posted on rare occasions.

  since i have become a little more comfortable in this forum lately, i thought i would give you some insight into who i am and why i am here.

  i am a christian in the sense that i follow christ and no man-made organization.

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  Indian Larry

  I enjoyed your post. Good luck with your search.
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  37

  Whats the most damning of the July 15 2013 changes?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a lot of the rank and file at the meetings seem to think some of the changes make more sense but what is the most damning of the changes that may help to wake to some up.

  some thing the rank and file will not first see or understand as a big deal?.

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  Indian Larry

  BTT
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  31

  A QUESTION NOBODY EVER ASKS....

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is the difference between working a math problem and, say...playing a piano piece?.

  the math problem has a correct answer.

  getting close to the correct answer is simply called being wrong.. music, on the other hand, can have a wide range of expression not easily judged to be "wrong".

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  Indian Larry

  In a way couldn't it be said that Cain and Able each gave god gifts? Apparently one was not acceptable.